Economic Policy Institute’s (EPI) new project, “The State of Working America Podcast,” debuted Tuesday (October 15) with an episode about the racial wealth gap. Jumping feet first into the tough conversation about race and wealth in America, host Pedro da Costa and guest Valerie Wilson, economist and director of the EPI’s Program on Race, Ethnicity, and the Economy, tackled the undeniable role that structural racism plays in America’s economy.

“Over the last 40 years or so, the wage gap has actually grown the most among college graduates, and that is counter-intuitive to what we think should be happening,” Wilson said. “Even with higher levels of education, those differences between races are not narrowing and in fact, you find that [Black people] who have a college education have less wealth than Whites without even a high school diploma,” said Wilson.

Listen to the episode here or watch it below, courtesy of EPI: