Model Carmen Carrera and actress Laverne Cox appeared on the Katie Couric show this week talk about being transgender women in the entertainment industry. Over the course of two segments, both Carrera and Cox completely shut down Couric’s attempts to objectify transgender women’s bodies by focusing on their physical transitions. 

First, here’s Carrera, who talks about how focusing on physical transitions distracts entirely from the lived realities of transgender folks (skip ahead to about the 2:50 mark):

Cox followed suit, citing the lived domination that transgender communities face in everything from housing to employment and physical safety. During the segment, Cox also cites the case of Islan Nettles, the 21-year-old transgender woman who was beaten to death in Harlem last summer (Skip ahead to the 2:25 mark):