In an MSNBC interview sparked by a Cleveland Browns player’s T-shirt protest, the head of Cleveland’s police union called Tamir Rice’s killing justified. Jeffrey Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association also tells substitute host Ari Melber that if the 12-year-old had been 20 and with a gun–as the officers thought (and were told by dispatch)–"we’re not sitting here today." The video shows an officer firing at Rice within two seconds of their car arriving on scene. When asked whether the video "clearly shows [Rice] was an imminent lethal threat to the officers," Follmer says, "Oh, absolutely. I don’t know if you didn’t see it but absolutely." The five-minute interview is yet another unvarnished look at police perspectives on policing and accountability–and how they may differ markedly from communities they serve.

Follmer is demanding an apology from Browns wide receiver Andrew Hawkins who wore a Tamir Rice-John Crawford T-shirt during warm-ups before Sunday’s NFL game. In the five-minute interview he defends police officers involved in the Rice and Crawford fatal shootings and advises the nation:

Listen to police officers commands. Listen to what we tell you and just stop. I think that eliminates a lot of the problem. [Like Hawkins] I have kids too. They know how to respect the law. They know what to do when a police officer comes up to them. I think the nation needs to realize that when we tell you to do something, do it. And if you’re wrong [pause] you’re wrong. If you’re right then the courts will figure it out.

Watch the rest on "All In With Chris Hayes."